Blogger “Ahuwah Zeus” asserts that the Black Nobility and other old Roman noble families control the Jesuits, and some other researchers have made similar claims. Youtube vlogger and Reddit blogger “Veritas__Aequitas” strongly disagrees, and has made a video debunking the claims:
I made a comment on the video to open a discussion:
I think it might be a bit more complicated than that. I’ve researched and blogged about Jesuits for about ten years, and based on evidence they most certainly are the most powerful secret society in the world. And yes, the Jesuit foot soldiers of course get their orders from their superiors and the Jesuit General. But could it be that many high level Jesuits are closely connected to these elite bloodlines, or sometimes maybe even part of them. There’s no clear proof that any of these bloodlines control the Jesuits per se, but it makes sense that the elite bloodlines, “black nobility”, and the Jesuits would be entangled, and that Jesuits in a way would be working for them.
Think of it this way: Is it plausible that some commoner with no ties to elite bloodlines gets to be the “most powerful man in the world” if he just gets lucky enough the rise to the top of the Jesuit power structure? I don’t think it all works quite like that, and I find the notion that Jesuits control everything merely by becoming Jesuits an oversimplification.
The Jesuits themselves will of course tell us that all Jesuits obey only the Jesuit General, and that they serve the Pope, but who knows what’s going on behind the scenes among the high level Jesuits. There’s a lot of information about Jesuits easily available in books and the internet, but could it be that there’s a lot of crucial information that’s not accessible to outsiders like us internet conspiracy researchers? Because even though there’s a huge amount of evidence that Jesuits have a lot of power, there’s also some holes in the theory that makes you think there are some missing links that have to be found. What I mean is, there’s many powerful organizations which contribute to the new world order agenda but don’t seem to have any significant/apparent Jesuit connections.
To which he replied:
“The Jesuits themselves will of course tell us that all Jesuits obey only the Jesuit General”
You ignored the argument in the video showing that this was only revealed when the Jesuit constitutions became available through government intervention since the Jesuits refused to show them to any outsider or civil authority. Actually, you ignored my entire video.
And here’s the exchange that followed our opening comments:
No, I didn’t ignore it. My point is that of course it wouldn’t be mentioned in the official constitutions of the Jesuit order that “we work for the elite bloodlines” even if they did. Some things are not written down, like it’s not written in the official Vatican documents that the Jesuits rule over the Pope.
It’s likely that you have to have connections to elite bloodlines or be part of them to get promoted to the very highest levels of the Jesuit order, or at least have backing from them. Otherwise anyone, even you or me, could theoretically get to be the “most powerful man in the world” by working our way to the top of the Jesuit power structure. Because anyone can become a Jesuit, and if it was just up to your efforts and merits, anyone could indeed become the Jesuit General. But it’s reasonable to assume that it doesn’t work like that, and that the top Jesuits are _selected_, not elected.
In regards to noble blood, Loyola himself was from a noble family; 3rd Jesuit General Francis Borgia was from the powerful Papal House of Borgia; 5th General Claudio Acquaviva was a son of an Italian Duke; and Wlodimir Ledochowski (General from 1915 to 1942) was a son of a Count, and he was a page to the Austro-Hungarian Empress. There’s probably more, but these are good examples because they’re among the most famous/notorious Jesuit Generals.
I acknowledge that you probably don’t think that literally anyone can become the “most powerful man in the world” just by working hard to get to the top of the Jesuit organization, but I’m exaggerating to provoke thought.
To further elaborate where I’m coming from, here’s comments on some citations and statements on your video, so bare with me.
“The institutions and the fundamental object of the company require its members not to acknowledge the civil power, except so far as it useful to the church and the company; for which reason the Jesuits, although residing in all countries, are not citizens of any, and do not consider themselves bound to obey the laws of nations, unless they are compelled by positive force; they have obtained privileges which are singular. It is therefore by no means surprising that their policy and maxims should have alienated from them the sympathies of the public authorities; and this even in the countries most purely Roman Catholic.”
Yes, this means that the Jesuits didn’t/don’t acknowledge the authority of the kings, rulers, and governments of the countries they reside in. But it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re not working for/with some elite families, and the fact that many of the top Jesuits, especially in the early days, were themselves from noble families lends credence to that the Jesuit order is intertwined with them. It should also be noted that the Roman noble families or the Black Nobility are not a monolithic entity; there’s obviously competition between different families and factions. It was the Kings and Emperors that wanted to suppress them back then, and it was obviously about the power struggle between them and the Jesuits. But many competing noble families were probably siding with the Jesuits even during their suppression in the mid to late 1700s. We know for a fact that the protestant King of Prussia Frederick the Great, and the Orthodox Empress of Russia Catherine the Great protected them at that time.
You’re probably right on that the Farnese family didn’t control the Jesuits, but without them the Jesuits wouldn’t have gotten to the where they were by the late 1500s. They needed the recognition from the Pope so they could use the institutions and networks of the Catholic Church for their own purposes. Cardinal Alessandro Farnese also funded and built the Jesuit mother church in Rome, which is why his name is carved on the facade of the building.
And as I said, the 3rd Jesuit General Francis Borgia was from the very powerful House of Borgia, and then there’s this: When the Knights Templar were abolished in 1312 the king of Aragon founded a new order as their continuation (the Order of Montesa), and while Francis Borgia was the Jesuit General his half-brother Pedro Luis Garcerán de Borja was the grand master of the Order of Montesa. Pedro de Borja was actually the last grand master before the office was united with the Spanish Crown.
I’m not saying the Black Nobility or elite bloodlines necessarily control the Jesuits, but I’m asking questions, because it if you think it through it doesn’t really make sense that a group of commoners would rule the world without the backing of some ruling elite families. The Jesuit order is an organization which is basically open to anyone who’s a Roman Catholic and willing to join it, which is not the case with other powerful organizations and secret societies. I think that’s an important clue not to be dismissed.
And what would the Jesuits be without the Catholic Church? Just a group of men, mostly from common backgrounds. The order’s existence as a powerful organization is dependent on the existence of the Catholic Church. Organizations, societies, and orders come and go, but bloodlines withstand time, and rich and powerful noble families can stand on their own. The point is that even though the Jesuits are a seemingly autonomous organization, I don’t believe they’re in the end really a separate entity from the elite bloodlines that had ruled the world for centuries way before the Jesuit order was even founded.
“I’m not saying the Black Nobility or elite bloodlines necessarily control the Jesuits”
Yes you are. You are denying the prima facie evidence in this video and making arguments from ignorance and ad hoc fallacies to support yourself which you will apologize for within 24 hours or you can enjoy being banned from this channel. Also there is no such thing as Black Nobility since the Lateran Treaty, 1929; and all titles of nobility were done away with in the Constitution of the Italian Republic, 1947.
I don’t deny the evidence. I acknowledge that the Jesuits don’t recognize the governments of the countries they reside in, of course they don’t. They see themselves being above the law, but so do the elite families, and they do get away with all kinds of things that ordinary people are held accountable for.
Many of the so called “Black Nobility” families still exist, like Colonna, Pallavicini, Borghese, Odescalchi etc., that’s what I mean. And then there are many other noble families of which members are high level members in Roman Catholic orders like the Knights of Malta, Order of the Holy Sepulchre, Constantinian Order or Teutonic Order. They point is the elite bloodlines haven’t gone anywhere and many of them still have a lot of power.
And I’m NOT saying these noble families control the Jesuit order, but that some of them have at least a symbiotic relationship with the Jesuits. Or not just that, but that the noble families, the Vatican, all the Roman Catholic chivalric orders, and the Jesuits are all intertwined. Do you not agree at least with that? They need each other and have common goals, but sometimes have conflicting interests, which leads to feuds like that between Pope John Paul II and the Jesuits, or the recent ousting of the SMOM Grand Master Matthew Festing.
In regards to conspiracies and secret societies, we sometimes have to acknowledge that we don’t have all the information or hard evidence we need, and because of that we also have to speculate and use circumstantial evidence and discernment. Which is what I’m doing. It’s reasonable to question whether a group of commoners (which the Jesuits at least mostly are to my knowledge) could rule the world without backing from the elite bloodlines as monolithically as Eric Jon Phelps, for example, claims.
My view is that there’s a lot of preselection regarding the Jesuits, meaning that it’s not just up to your efforts or merits if you get the to top of the Jesuit power structure, but that your background matters. In the early days it most certainly did; it’s hardly coincidence that Francis Borgia from the House of Borgia was selected as the 3rd Jesuit General, at the same time when his half-brother Pedro de Borja was the Grand Master of the Order of Montesa, the Roman Catholic order founded by the King of Aragon as a continuation of the Knights Templar.
It’s unfortunate if you decide to block me because I have a large amount of knowledge about the Jesuits, secret societies and new world order relates topics. The topic of this video is the noble families and their power or lack thereof over the Jesuits, so I discuss that here and also speculate. In my blog I usually speculate less, and just present evidence and give a lot of citations and links. My main work has been the Finnish blog “maallikkoapuri” exposing the Vatican, Jesuits, secret societies, conspiracies, and new world order. It has gained a decent following and view count in about ten years. My English written WordPress blog “Dominus ac Redemptor 1773” has until recently only had some short articles and videos, but there’s a few in-depth articles now and I’ll post more soon. Links to the blogs are on my channel.
“I acknowledge that the Jesuits don’t recognize the governments of the countries they reside in”
Then ipso facto you admit they do not obey the laws of nobles and their now-defunct duchies which is exactly an argument I made in the video among several others including how Jesuit formation separates a man from his family for an extended period of years and how the constitutions which were kept secret for so long make very clear that the Jesuits do not obey anyone else besides their superiors.
“And I’m NOT saying these noble families control the Jesuit order”
You already implied the possibility they could which is straight out denying the citations. You have 12 hours left to apologize to me for being a lying douchebag.
“Then ipso facto you admit they do not obey the laws of nobles”
But the point is that the nobles, or the elite, don’t obey them, either. Like David Rockefeller, who was likely the most prominent and powerful member of the elite in the USA. He wasn’t subject to governmental authority, he was above the government, being the head of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) and founder of the Trilateral Commission among other things. Now, Rockefeller is not “nobility” per se, because it’s more of a European thing, but he was an equivalent of a highest level European nobleman. The Jesuits and the elite are both above the law, that is.
“You already implied the possibility they could which is straight out denying the citations.”
Yes, I implied they COULD, but didn’t say they do. At this point my point of view is that it’s probably just not that cut and dry, like that the Jesuits completely control the elite families. Neither do I claim that the Jesuits are under the control of the elite families. My comments are not meant as conclusive proof of anything, or to debunk your point of view. They’re more of discussion openers. Because I don’t know what the exact truth is, and I might even be totally wrong. When I’m confident about my position I don’t speculate and ask questions, but rather just lay out all the facts and evidence.
But I’ll look more into this and see what I’ll find and then write something about it in the blog. One thing that is known, is that the Jesuits and the House of Medici were closely associated and worked together. But that was in the 1500s and 1600s, and the House of Medici doesn’t exist anymore, so that in and of itself doesn’t yet prove that any of the current Roman/European noble families would have a similar relationship with the Jesuits.
“But the point is that the nobles, or the elite, don’t obey them”
Total Dunning Kruger. I thought you knew about the Jesuits? A cursory history of their Order shows they openly controlled the monarchs of Europe before their suppression. To this day the royalty of Spain send their children to be Jesuit educated.
“Yes, I implied they COULD”
So citations don’t mean anything to you; you believe the truth cannot be known; you hate the human race and you hate rational inquiry and logic; you hate man and his institutions. You are a scourge upon the earth and you curse the name of Elohim who created man in His image with rational faculties to deduce the truth. You now no longer have a change to apologize to me, you can go drink bleach you fucking cunt.
So he apparently blocked me.
But regarding the first bolded part; he likely didn’t properly read through my comments, because I made a reference to that in one of my comments;
It was the Kings and Emperors that wanted to suppress them back then, and it was obviously about the power struggle between them and the Jesuits.
But I also added;
But many competing noble families were probably siding with the Jesuits even during their suppression in the mid to late 1700s. We know for a fact that the protestant King of Prussia Frederick the Great, and the Orthodox Empress of Russia Catherine the Great protected them at that time.
And like I stated in one comment, the founder of the Jesuit order Ignatius Loyola was himself a nobleman, as were also at least the 3rd Jesuit General Francis Borgia (Duke of Gandia); the 5th Jesuit General Claudio Acquaviva, a son of an Italian Duke; and the notorious Wlodimir Ledochowski (Jesuit General from 1915 to 1942), a son of a Count.
About the suppression of the Jesuits in the latter half of the 1700s:
The suppression of the Jesuits in the Portuguese Empire (1759), France (1764), the Two Sicilies, Malta, Parma, the Spanish Empire (1767) and Austria and Hungary (1782) is a complex topic. Analysis of the reasons is complicated by the political maneuvering in each country which was not carried on in the open but has left some trail of evidence. The papacy reluctantly went along with the demands of the various Catholic kingdoms involved, and advanced no theological reason for the suppression.
The power and wealth of the Society of Jesus with its influential educational system was confronted by adversaries in this time of cultural change in Europe, leading to the revolutions that would follow. Monarchies attempting to centralize and secularize political power viewed the Jesuits as being too international, too strongly allied to the papacy, and too autonomous from the monarchs in whose territory they operated. By the brief Dominus ac Redemptor (21 July 1773) Pope Clement XIV suppressed the Society of Jesus, as a fait accompli and with no reasons given. Russia, Prussia, and the United States allowed the Jesuits to continue their work, and Catherine the Great allowed the founding of a new novitiate in Russia.
Anyway, to the other bolded part; of course citations mean a lot to me, I rely heavily on citations in my articles, and of course the truth can be known. I only indicated that I don’t, at least yet, know the exact truth about this particular subject matter, and I’m sure most people would’ve understood that was what I meant. The more knowledge I’ve gathered, the more humble I’ve become because I now better realize what I DON’T know. And there are limits to what outsiders like bloggers and truth seekers can know just by reading old conspiracy books from the 1800s – which highlight the influence of the Jesuits back then – or internet articles.
I.e., what do we actually know about the extent of their power today. In my view we don’t really yet have a full picture of what’s going on behind the scenes among the elite, the Jesuits, and between them. A lot of the Jesuit world control theory relies on circumstantial evidence, like that this and this person was Jesuit educated. That’s good evidence; it proves that those people are connected to the Jesuits, and when alumni of Jesuit universities and schools are largely overrepresented in positions of power, like they were especially in the Obama administration, it indicates that the Jesuits have huge influence over political appointments. The same applies to the US Supreme Court as I’ve shown. The annual Catholic Al Smith Dinner is another indication of Jesuit influence on American politics;
The Alfred E. Smith Memorial Foundation Dinner, commonly known as the Al Smith Dinner, is an annual white tie dinner in New York City, United States, for fundraising of Catholic charities supporting “the neediest children of the Archdiocese of New York, regardless of race, creed, or color.” Held at New York City’s Waldorf-Astoria Hotel on the third Thursday of October, it is hosted by the Archbishop of New York while organized by the Alfred E. Smith Memorial Foundation in honor of Al Smith who grew up in poverty and later became the Governor of New York four times and the first Catholic nominated as the Democratic candidate for the 1928 United States presidential election.
Cardinal Francis Spellman founded and hosted the first dinner in 1945 after Smith’s death the previous year. By 1960 the Al Smith dinner had become a “ritual of American politics”, in the words of Theodore H. White. It is generally the last event at which the two U.S. presidential candidates share a stage before the election.
As many conspiracy researchers acknowledge, the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) largely controls the US government and also the American news media. At the moment five of the 36 members of its board are Jesuit educated, which is significant, but hardly conclusive proof of complete Jesuit control. And even a bit surprisingly none of the 14 officers of the CFR are Jesuit educated. In the comments I mentioned David Rockefeller, the head of one of the elite families, and he was a lifelong leading member and honorary chairman of the CFR, as well as the founder of the globalist think tank Trilateral Commission.
There is more of similar evidence of Jesuit influence in the USA, Europe and the world at large, some of which I’ve already documented in this blog (and there’s more to come), but it would be a bit of a stretch to say it all conclusively proves that the Jesuits and them alone completely control everything. That’s why I these days avoid blanket statements like “Jesuits run the world” or “Jesuits control the USA”.
All in all, “Veritas__Aequitas” repeatedly misrepresented my arguments, and hence we ended up talking past each other most of the time. My sense is that he sincerely somewhat misinterpreted what I was trying to say, which was that it’s perhaps not that cut and dry as the theories about the Jesuits completely controlling the world would have us believe. These theories suggest that even all the elite families are under total control of the Jesuits, whereas my point of view at this point is that the relationship between these entities could also be symbiotic, that they could be more like allies who have common goals, with the high level Jesuits likely being the more dominant party. But as I said in my last comment, I’ll look more into this and then make some conclusions from what I’ve got.
As to the latter part of the last comment by “Veritas__Aequitas”, I don’t think I’ve ever received such a tirade of ad hominems even by conspiracy theory debunkers, internet trolls, or those who vehemently claim that the Jews run the world and get triggered when I bring up the Jesuits. So I don’t know what on earth that was about.